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Post by Gabriele Maruca on Jun 22, 2020 17:45:40 GMT
Guys, read this in full. Bazza got the short end of the stick against those frauds. https://www.reddit.com/r/assettocorsa/comments/hckrto/lets_talk_about_sim_dream_modding/ I'll put the original by u/Spinarino (with pictures) here in case people back on reddit delete the original. There's suspicion of them pointing Forumotion against F1Classic because of their harboring Bazza's work. Sim Dream Development (or Sim Dream for short) is a modding group who sell mods on their website assettocorsamodding.net. These mods are more often than not stolen, low-quality, and often ripped completely from other games and creators without permission. I'm pretty sure that selling content without the permission of the original creator is not only wrong but illegal, although I'm not 100% sure on the laws around this.
The community have known about them for years and afaik there was one attempt to shut them down after a mod creator complained. They changed their website name to assettocorsamods.org (which was smart as it likely drives up traffic to their site) and have continued selling low-effort mods to unsuspecting racers. The mods on their website look good at first glance, but are cheap conversions from rFactor and Forza, with very little work done on the physics of the cars and how they drive in general. They're charging users $7-10 for each mod which is simply not worth it and I doubt that they have contacted the original creator before doing this.
I'm making this post because Sim Dream have now taken steps to falsely copyright strike other mod makers and content creators to take down their original content. A friend of mine recently received a copyright strike on YT for a mod review video that he had made which featured the GPL 1500cc mod by Bazza. This copyright strike was made by Sim Dream. His review fell under fair use but was still removed. Sim Dream's website lists the "Assetto Corsa Classic Competition Mod" which features several cars that have been taken directly from Bazza's GPL 1500cc mod without his permission. I'm not sure why they striked that video but I find it incredibly hypocritical that they did this considering that they steal content.
A few days later Sim Dream striked Bazza's mod that he was hosting on Mediafire and the file was removed. So, not only did they steal his mods but they've also taken action to remove Bazza's mods and claim they have the copyrights to them. I'm not sure how or why this is allowed to happen but it's totally wrong.
I'm hoping that this post exposes some of the wrongdoing of Sim Dream and creates a discussion on how we can stop them from profitting of the works of others. I wouldn't mind if they simply converted old mods from other games for free but they are actively making money and being di*** in the process. Let me know if you've had any negative experiences with their mods or services and hopefully something can be done.
TLDR: Sim Dream steal mods from others and create low-quality ripped versions that they then sell without permission from the original creators. They have recently abused the copyright system to issue false copyright claims on YT and against mod creators. These are the images provided by Bazza, linked in the text.
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Post by Pascal Mikula on Jun 22, 2020 20:12:36 GMT
Aren't those the same retards that stole the F1 1971 and other mods from our modding team, plus the publicly available versions of the F1 1982 mod I've been (slowly....) working on? Jeez..
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Post by Alberto Ibanez on Jun 22, 2020 20:18:02 GMT
What a bunch of shameless SOBs.
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Post by Pascal Mikula on Jun 22, 2020 20:24:59 GMT
"EDIT: Looks like Scum Dream have taken action to try and take down F1Classics, a forum that provides a lot of great mods."
BRUH I don't even have words for this shit! I bet my left testicle they're based in somewhere Eastern Europe where copyright is overly fucky.
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Post by Pascal Mikula on Jun 22, 2020 20:29:22 GMT
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Post by François Remmen on Jun 22, 2020 20:48:55 GMT
This "new" world is litterly Fu%ked UP with crazy people !
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Post by Alberto Ibanez on Jun 23, 2020 7:40:07 GMT
What I don't get is how come the automakers and FIA are not on their throats already. Maybe someone should give them a wake up call
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Post by Pascal Mikula on Jun 23, 2020 8:42:59 GMT
What I don't get is how come the automakers and FIA are not on their throats already. Maybe someone should give them a wake up call
Would you want them to go after the legit modmakers as well? Because that's a big issue. Nobody but the FIA/FOM owns the copyright to anything F1, meaning if FOM goes after them, they're only half a corner away from going after everyone that does F1 mods for any sim. Licensing and shit, you know.
EDIT TO ADD: I mean, technically it would make sense in the short term, to kill off those low-quality mod-stealing scumbags. But then, every unlicensed content with anything F1 (or F2, F3, etc. anything that the FIA/FISA ever sanctioned) would instantly be struck down unless you pay tons of money for licensing the content. Plus, given that Codemasters has an exclusive license to FIA-sanctioned racing series for video games until at least 2025...you know where I'm going.
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Post by Alberto Ibanez on Jun 23, 2020 9:00:43 GMT
Those scumbags are infringing copyright because they are SELLING it, whereas the original modders are doing a fair use creative work. Yes, you do not want to have to get a lawyer and discuss in a court that as it is a waste of time, energy and money, but I'm confident that what we do here for example with our mods is no breach of copyrights because we are not getting money for it. We are basically a group of friends creating custom contents for our own entertainment. Or do you think that someone doing f.e. a Youtube video about Jackie Ickxs racing career would be also breaching copyrights and trade marks? Not every mention or use of copyrighted stuff is a breach of the legal protection of it mate, copyright exists to protect the economic benefits it derives, not its existance "per se".
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Post by Gabriele Maruca on Jun 23, 2020 10:43:59 GMT
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Post by Pascal Mikula on Jun 23, 2020 11:32:38 GMT
Gabriele can you quote what it says in the f1classic post? Some of us (myself included, weirdly enough) don't have an account for that forum and apparently you need to log in to view this.
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Post by Jukka Maattanen on Jun 23, 2020 14:33:28 GMT
Those scumbags are infringing copyright because they are SELLING it, whereas the original modders are doing a fair use creative work. Yes, you do not want to have to get a lawyer and discuss in a court that as it is a waste of time, energy and money, but I'm confident that what we do here for example with our mods is no breach of copyrights because we are not getting money for it. We are basically a group of friends creating custom contents for our own entertainment. Or do you think that someone doing f.e. a Youtube video about Jackie Ickxs racing career would be also breaching copyrights and trade marks? Not every mention or use of copyrighted stuff is a breach of the legal protection of it mate, copyright exists to protect the economic benefits it derives, not its existance "per se". Didn't Porsche go after modders for using their trademark some years ago, resulting in mods called Boxer 6 and Flat 6?
While I'd agree free mods cause no harm to copyright owners, their view may be totally different and claiming "fair use" shouldn't be treated as a get out of jail free card.
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Post by Pascal Mikula on Jun 23, 2020 14:40:52 GMT
Yes, they did. However, IIRC the exclusive license of Porsche for EA has expired recently and has not been renewed, hence why many games not made by EA now have Porsches in them
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Post by Alberto Ibanez on Jun 23, 2020 15:12:25 GMT
It all depends on the use you make of it and it's mostly related to public exposure/availability. But for example if we would send the mod per private link to the people racing here it would be 100% correct as anything kept for private non profit use among a person or group of persons is not copyright infringement.
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Post by David Sabre on Jun 23, 2020 15:14:42 GMT
I can't believe that they are charging money for my 1976 Formula Atlantic mod. They have no permissions to use it. It looks like they have only changed the driver model. The physics don't look like right also as the front of some of the cars is lifting up in the images. Edit: And I see in the video that they have added flames to the exhausts on gear changes.
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Post by Gabriele Maruca on Jun 23, 2020 15:19:10 GMT
Gabriele can you quote what it says in the f1classic post? Some of us (myself included, weirdly enough) don't have an account for that forum and apparently you need to log in to view this. Here's the quote: "So not only are Simdream going after Bazza after stealing his work and then selling it (they have sent copyright strikes to YouTube to take down videos featuring his content and also targeted his Mediafire account), they are now aiming to take down the entire forum? I've just dropped an email to Turn10, the team behind Forza, and informed them of Simdream selling rips of their models. Hopefully they will take notice. You can report them here. support.forzamotorsport.net/hc/en-us/articles/360006045454-Not-seeing-any-articles-related-to-your-issue-" Also Clif_Admin and Washington96 (the admins), since Forumotion isn't giving them any detail on the supposed infraction, they're following my advice in making a backup of the whole forum and talk some other platforms into uploading that same backup somewhere else. According to Clif, it's showing promises. Also, according to Washington, Roman tried to claim the forum three times already.
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Post by Gabriele Maruca on Jun 23, 2020 15:25:07 GMT
I can't believe that they are charging money for my 1976 Formula Atlantic mod. They have no permissions to use it. It looks like they have only changed the driver model. The physics don't look like right also as the front of some of the cars is lifting up in the images. Edit: And I see in the video that they have added flames to the exhausts on gear changes. You should see what they did to my '65 and '58 mods, the Luigi70's models, the GP37 ones... it's a mess, all around. Also, I suspect Roman having an early copy of F1 2020, because he has put the SF1000 on sale. That car doesn't exist anywhere in 3D other than the Codies' title and nobody has seen it racing live, so it's impossible that he has a whole stash of updated photos of it racing from which make a 3D model from scratch. Why "updated photos"? Because it's really close to the version Charles Leclerc strolled around Maranello a couple of days ago than the Barcellona "test" version.
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Post by Pascal Mikula on Jun 23, 2020 15:25:57 GMT
Good Christ ... also, looking at the name of the claimant, they seem to be trying to use the Eastern European lack of copy-right situation stuff to their advantage ... sounds similar to that one Russian man trying to claim the whole of the SCP community as his own, if anyone knows about this.
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Post by Alberto Ibanez on Jun 23, 2020 15:26:51 GMT
Well can't two play the same game? What if Dave logged a protest on Youtube showing evidence of him having created those models years ago? Those a$$holes have a YT channel, could be nice to shove it up their butts.
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Post by Pascal Mikula on Jun 23, 2020 15:35:13 GMT
In order to counter-claim something on YouTube, the recipient of the claim has to give out their full legal information, including full name, address, etc. etc. which opens them up to being doxxed, swatted, you name it. I am currently editing a videopiece showing their "mods" compared to the originals, in context with the reddit post shown above and the past findings (the F171 mod, my F182 mod, etc etc etc); and I urge people to do the same, showing that Sim Dream are abusing copyright and the YouTube copyright system in order to make it look like they create what they sell. (Which, in fairness, they do stuff to the mods where one gotta give them credit, however it's not enough to classify as fair use; not to mention that turning a commercial profit throws the fair use argument out of the window completely)
EDIT: Also, the only way to "protest" as you say Alberto is making a video and trying to bait them into trying to take it down via a copyright strike, however that's a dangerous game, as I explained above. It may work out fine, however it may also end in court, should those scumlords take it that far.
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Post by Gabriele Maruca on Jun 23, 2020 15:35:54 GMT
Well can't two play the same game? What if Dave logged a protest on Youtube showing evidence of him having created those models years ago? Those a$$holes have a YT channel, could be nice to shove it up their butts. Doesn't work, tried the same with my own models ('65 and '58) and Youtube answered me with the equivalent of this. In short, they've reviewed my case, shut his comments for a while, then got back to me saying that it's not me that has to give out the claim, it's Ferrari, Lotus, Porsche, etc. Funny stuff, eh?
@pascal Mikula: you're talking about "Fishmonger"? Yeah, it's a similar case, only that SRD is trying to delete all evidence of them stealing stuff.
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Post by Alberto Ibanez on Jun 23, 2020 15:38:07 GMT
You might have to try a different approach, show the 3D models with flat color skin and no logos plus a wireframe picture and claim the assholes have stolen them and just added skins and logos for profit.
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Post by Pascal Mikula on Jun 23, 2020 15:38:27 GMT
Gabriele, I was more referring to other stuff that has been going on on YouTube this year; especially copyright abuse by certain YouTubers and their attempts to silence critics which bring that sort of stuff up.
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Post by Pascal Mikula on Jun 23, 2020 15:40:57 GMT
You might have to try a different approach, show the 3D models with flat color skin and no logos plus a wireframe picture and claim the assholes have stolen them and just added skins and logos for profit. As Gabriele said, it would probably go back to YouTube (and other legal teams, if I may say it like that) saying "Well...that wireframe shows a Ferrari 158 (for example), so it's up to Ferrari" and then Ferrari would get involved, the FIA would probably get involved and we'd all be in that hurricane of shit.
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Post by François Remmen on Jun 23, 2020 16:52:35 GMT
That is why i asked a while ago for a video editor to create a video promo showing a copy right by the modders who created this, refering to Spa 1958 and his incredible mod for Gabrielle, IM not blaming anybody here ! ofcourse a rf2 conversion with all the credits who involved like we always did in the gentlemen modding era -2005-2010 but soon it will be for sale on asetto you bet! times changed so radpidly.
by seeing a promo video by many people would give evidence WE , and i speak for many people who did modding work in there spare times so the judge can make up her/his mind who is bashing and grab money of many people backs who created realistic content for all fanatics amongst us that said..
gentlemen are very rare these days. I'm very curious what a American judge think about this..
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